A.B.
30/06/2009 02:15:26 |
Finally, a responsible and reasonable viewpoint from someone "official":
"A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said: "We have not ruled out taking action on very cheap alcohol - it's clearly linked to people drinking more and the subsequent harm to their health.
"It would be wrong to make sweeping changes without consideration of all the options suggested by our research published in December.
"We need to do more work on this to make sure any action we take is appropriate, fair and effective.
"Any decisions we make will take into account their wider economic impact during this difficult time and it would not be right to penalise the overwhelming majority of responsible drinkers."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5119345/Tough-action-needed-on-cut-price-alcohol-offers-doctors-say.html |
A.B.
30/06/2009 01:38:07 |
The beer and pub industry is no different than mom and pop grocers and restaurants. They are being closed down by "big-box" chain stores and discount competitors. Yet, the government won't set a price floor or help our industry survive. It shows that they don't support local businesses. |
TyeDi
26/06/2009 17:52:48 |
 |
TyeDi
26/06/2009 17:51:29 |
Yes, many local pubs support other local businesses, keeping our local communities at work. The more small businesses like these we can have I say the better! |
Sofi
26/06/2009 03:23:57 |
What about being green?
You usually don't have to drive far (if at all) to your local pub, a good many of them rely on wood fires or similar low-carbon heat sources, their thick, chunky, earthy construction keeps the heat/cool in and the hot/cold out, and many of them rely on local grocers and local breweries, wineries, and distilleries for their offerings, whcih means less distance and pollution in transit for their menu items |
Smitty
29/04/2009 03:35:15 |
|
A.B.
29/04/2009 03:34:04 |
Ha! People Against Pubcos unite! PAP  |
Smitty
29/04/2009 03:31:43 |
I guess so, but perhaps something more formal. A petition of sorts In a perfect world...just a thought. |
Smitty
29/04/2009 03:29:01 |
Perhaps pub owners could gather together and make some kind of association to right these wrongs. |
Leslie Andrews
27/04/2009 17:06:48 |
The other side to that is that this lets the pubco charge lower rent, in exchange for compromised profit margins. |
A.B.
27/04/2009 17:04:35 |
In some circumstances. I think, as far as pubs go, its the pubco beer tie that's suffocating us. There has to be some room for free trade, I think, and the way it's set up now, thats just not possible. |
KarMie
27/04/2009 17:02:40 |
What about beer ties? Aren't they as much at fault as the smoking ban? |
JenniferB.
27/04/2009 16:54:57 |
To you owners on the forum: is your establishment doing anything to attract families to your places? |
Shelly Beauford
25/04/2009 19:40:13 |
Woo-hoo!
Go AB! |
A.B.
25/04/2009 19:39:14 |
Only partly; I am very active in my industry, both offline and on. I don't think it's a helpful thing to judge people based solely on the opinions they type here. As far as being part of the "problem," I am also part of the "solution." By being here and raising these issues, we are bringing light to the problems bringing down our industry. If you can't understand that, then this probably isn't the best place for you to be. |
A.B.
25/04/2009 19:36:39 |
No, I do not have an "agenda" or a "miff," but I think this is part of the problem. Patron's are going out, buying discount grocery beer, sitting at home, and interacting with people they "think" they know well online, and perhaps this is adding to some larger problem. |
Jenny Bean
25/04/2009 19:35:23 |
I feel that Ash's got a social agenda, perhaps a miff with MySpace?? |
A.B.
25/04/2009 19:34:26 |
Yes, but there's all kinds of problems with that.
First, are you really "meeting" them on MySpace? What about personal contact with other humans? Are we so "plugged in" that we can't even conceive of meeting new people anywhere other than online? |
A.B.
25/04/2009 19:31:13 |
Ha ha, very funny... |
Shelly Beauford
25/04/2009 19:30:20 |
Say the pubs do close down; what's going to take their place? |
A.B.
25/04/2009 19:27:23 |
I think it's great if the smoking ban is helping some pubs; it just doesn't seem like that's the majority. |
Smitty
21/04/2009 03:14:22 |
lol!
That is just hilarious! Why aren't we doing this here!?!?! |
Leslie Andrews
21/04/2009 03:13:20 |
Well, it gives it a seafaring feel, doesn't it? |
Shelly Beauford
21/04/2009 03:11:52 |
Ha! That's it! problem solved!! |
A.B.
21/04/2009 03:10:07 |
At first, I thought that was a gag, but it seems like the "butt-hole" is going over quite well! |
KarMie
20/04/2009 01:27:32 |
Following the logic discussed here, are the individuals who frequented the local pubs flocking to the new "warehouse" clubs? Are those establishments seeing a rise in neighborhood drinkers? Where, exactly, are these neighbors going? |
Mandee
20/04/2009 01:24:28 |
I've been reading this post and have noticed the same common issues. Taxes, smoking ban, etc. What about other factors? Have things like parking issues or music level issues contributed to the downfall of these locals?
I guess a better question is this: what is everyone's local pub like? Let's compare notes! |
Tom Dankins
20/04/2009 01:22:27 |
I agree that the smoking ban is definitely hurting our pubs. It isn't the first, or only, reason for their downfall, but it has played a crucial part. The law should be changed so that pubs that want smoking sections should be allowed to have them, and that those establishments that don't want to serve smokers don't have to. That way both groups have places they can frequent. I don't know-I'm all out of good ideas, now we're down to the bad ones! |
A.B.
20/04/2009 01:06:12 |
It could be, but I wonder how much change is needed in the neighborhood pub. I mean, most of them are laid back places where people can go to relax, and what are they going to change to? The club scenes as found in the larger cities? I think more has to be done within (tax cuts, etc.) rather than without. |
Smitty
20/04/2009 00:38:55 |
The way I see it, there's no one answer to solve these issues. It sounds like everybody's pretty much come to a concensus (or maybe not) that a number of things need to happen. First, somethign has to be done about the cost of supermarket/discount alcohol in relation to the alcohol served in the pubs, and second, there needs to be some modification to the all-or-nothing, black-and-white, smoking ban. |
KellyP.
20/04/2009 00:35:44 |
Housekeeping! lol
I think NuLabour has a lot to do with this discussion, but so do the Tories, because in the beginning it was their idea to bust up the monoplized chains of the larger bars, which ended up doing the same thing they wanted to stop inside the pub world. Right now, there are more identical, cookie-cutter pubs in smaller towns than indies, and that's a shame.
KP |
Gloria
20/04/2009 00:30:51 |
Hi everybody! I'm seeing a lot of new/Guest people here, and it's great! But if you're posting as a Guest or a newbie, can you make sure to sign your name, so that we know who you are?
It helps us get to know each other a little better, plus it makes it easier to address replies to specific posts, especially in long threads like this one!
Thanks so much, and keep up the great discussions!
Gloria |
A.B.
20/04/2009 00:28:10 |
OK, we will. We promise. |
Leslie Andrews
20/04/2009 00:11:15 |
They did say they'd come back, didn't they j/k
More seriously, beer taxes aren't the only price in the alcoholic beverage industry that cause its price to go up. Don't forget-grain prices (malt, barley, etc.) have risen as well. Of course, more expensive costs of ingredients cause more expensive products as well. |
A.B.
20/04/2009 00:02:28 |
Yeah, so there! 
edited by A.B. on 20/04/2009 |
Trinni Moralez
19/04/2009 17:19:09 |
That could have been my post! My town is just like that, so I guess we're not alone! |
A.B.
19/04/2009 17:11:03 |
I think lifting the smoking ban for eligible establishments that desire smoking back in their places is a great incentive. And as long as we are "going here," I also think that if New Labour was kept out of the issue things would improve greatly. |
JohnnyBoy
19/04/2009 17:07:18 |
I don't think your comment is "way off base," but it does raise the issue of recognition. One wouldn't have to just give money to these establishments to recognize their value in the community. Money doesn't grow on trees, and if problems can be solved without it, sometimes that's for the better. |
Tom Dankins
19/04/2009 17:04:26 |
Just another thought, perhaps way off base (if so, I'm sure someone here will tell me!). The smoking ban. Remember back when it first started, and people said that they would frequent bars and pubs more often if only there was no smoking allowed in them? Now that they are smoke free, the people still aren't coming. Perhaps one of the "perks" allowed to these pubs could be that they can revert back to "smoking" establishments. |
JohnnyBoy
19/04/2009 16:54:56 |
Maaayyyybbbb.....
Maaayyyybbb not...
|
JohnnyBoy
19/04/2009 16:52:41 |
Thank you!
I'm actually the manager of a bar/club in Swansea. |
Tom Dankins
19/04/2009 16:41:34 |
Yes, very good points! Thanks for the thoughts! |
Shelly Beauford
19/04/2009 16:40:44 |
Thank you, AB, for some common sense! |
Smitty
19/04/2009 16:39:49 |
Hear Hear!!
Well said! |
A.B.
19/04/2009 16:38:54 |
I think we've got some really good dialogue going on here. Cheers to all of you! My thoughts are this: I agree that there shouldn't be raises is, say, beer duties during a time when pubs are closing at such an alarming rate. I also agree that other cuts in duties should be presented for those pubs that serve their communities in other various ways beyond their trade. I also think, on the other hand, that pubs need to stay competitive with other establishments (yes, including pubcos). I think you've all been to a pub where it seems that they haven't updated their wine menu since the time their finest vintage was bottled, or those that can't serve you a Raging Bull because they either don't know what's in it, or don't have the ingredients even if they did have the knowledge!
I guess my point is that there has to be give and take. The government should recognize the structure of these establishments, and the pubs should do everything in their power to stay relevant in today's beverage industry, and maybe we'll all make it to see another day.
*off my soapbox*
Ash |
Jenny Bean
19/04/2009 16:31:04 |
The other side of this coin is that these establishments are still fighting cheaper alcohol being sold at grocers and other discount stores. Even with rate cuts, I don't think that's enough to get us out of this hole.
jb |
Suzie Q.
19/04/2009 04:55:36 |
Some of these pubs are older than the villages themselves! To see them closing down because of bureaucracy is absolute rubbish! If the members of these communities weren't so exhausted from being beaten down, they would be furious! |
Leslie Andrews
19/04/2009 04:49:55 |
Is there a real, sound, reason anyone can find as to why these larger "pubcos" and the neighborhood pubs are falling into the same category, government wise? |
Tom Dankins
19/04/2009 04:36:55 |
There was a perfect example of the role these establishments play in our small town lives on TV just the other day, in the US of all places! The morning news program was doing a piece on Susan Boyle, and they showed her neighbors from her hometown gathering in their neighborhood pub to watch her on Britain's Got Talent. The pub patrons talked about how it was natural that everyone gather there to watch her big debut. That is what this is all about. |
Gloria
06/04/2009 13:43:32 |
Closing Pub Doors Causing More Loss than Just Alcohol
It’s no surprise that current financial upheavals are being blamed for the closing down of many of the UK’s smaller neighborhood pubs, but are residents only losing a place to drink?
Pubs offer the communities in which they operate much more than just a place to sit and enjoy a pint. They are neighborhood hubs offering residents a place to congregate, create, and share memories. Rick Muir found that pubs are places where "people believe they are most likely to mix with those from a different background," fostering a sense of acceptance and belonging in the community. Pubs also promote public services, oftentimes providing a meeting place for everyone from civic leaders to sporting clubs a place to meet and conduct their business in full public view. In some areas pubs pull double duty as post offices or general markets, continuing their beverage business and providing their residents with supplementary services closer to home. They provide a good number of jobs in their communities and provide a safer drinking atmosphere, devoid of the metropolitan delinquency and tribulations associated with inner-city bars. Even with all of the added benefits the community-center-pub provides, by law they are treated the same as conglomerate pubcos, sharing the same taxing structure and licensing laws. This treatment is clearly hurting local pubs.
Last week, the Institute for Public Policy Research released a report which found 39 pubs close every week as a result of both fiscal and governmental licensing policies. When these pubs close, their local communities suffer. They suffer financial losses as well as cultural ones. Not only have they lost their neighborhood gathering place, but their friends and neighbors are out of work, their local community groups have lost their meeting place, and in some cases they have lost the additional services provided by the pub. The government must take a closer look at the role these pubs play in their communities, and change their policies. They must acknowledge the tolls these towns pay when the pubs are shut down, and revamp their policies and licensing procedures to accommodate for their differences from larger pubcos. Patrons, supporters, and community members must band together to call attention to these discrepancies and governments must offer solutions in order to keep these important cultural and community centers alive in the UK’s towns.
How have Britain’s community members helped their neighborhood pubs stay operational? What do we need to do in order to make sure we don’t live in a "pub-less" society? What do you think? |