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01/07/2008 00:45:27
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Gloria
Posts 29
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London's Tap House bar is getting a lot of negative attention recently from residents of 170 Kent Street, an apartment building which is home mainly to elderly Londoners, and is located directly behind the bar. Residents of the housing development complain that the noise from the bar is invasive; one resident even claims it is giving her heart trouble.
"I have heart failure because of the noise," Ms. Girard, who lives in the building, told the London city council’s Environment and Transportation Committee recently. "I have had to sleep many times in my bathtub," because it is the only room in her apartment where Girard claims she can escape the noise. Girard continued, sobbing and speaking for other residents of the building; "We don’t know what to do... we're asking for your help." Girard sponsored a petition, complete with 127 signatures from her co-tenants, asking the council to close the Tap House bar. The council denied her petition, instead stating that they would look into specifying a decibel limit in London’s noise bylaw.
Currently, London’s noise bylaw states that charges may be pressed if the noise is "bothersome", making it difficult to successfully define "bothersome" when the time comes to issue a citation. Downtown London is not the only area effected by noise ordinance issues. Boroughs such as Bromley, Hillingdon, and Southwark are all trying to regulate the matter of noise; each has a page on their websites where citizens can formally lodge a noise complaint against a specific person or business. However, in order for a formal complaint to be filed for "bothersome" noise levels, the objector must be willing to testify in court as to how the interferes with life. In the case of the Tap House bar, as of yet no one is willing to testify and no formal charges have been made.
Many pub and bar owners are trying to work with local law enforcement agencies and governments to come agreements over noise levels. For these owners, defiance can be expensive. First time noise-ordinance-offenders can be fined £200, and repeat offenders can face up to a £2,000 fine. Some establishments have gone so far as to install noise meters to help control clamor; Pu’s Brasserie in Holborn has installed a noise meter in their main dining area to discourage diners from making too much noise and disturbing nearby residents.
While the city council wants the downtown entertainment scene to be lively, they simultaneously want residents to be able to live in relative peace. The other side of that coin is that residents such as Ms. Girard do live in the heart of a bustling city, and as such can hardly expect perfect unbroken harmony; there has to be a happy medium where both sides give and take.
What should law enforcement do, if anything, to help regulate the noise levels of establishments with residents nearby? Should the law be changed to include a decibel level, or are establishments responsible enough to police themselves? What about fines and citations, are they effective tools for controlling downtown noise? What's the solution?
edited by Dunc on 01/07/2008
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01/07/2008 06:04:31
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Leslie Andrews
Posts 37
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Are you serious?! "Bothersome"?! My neighbor's dog is "bothersome" can I get it hauled off to jail?!
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01/07/2008 14:53:09
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Nita
Posts 12
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Heart failure? Give me a break. If you don't like the neighborhood, just like anywhere else, move. Trying to change your surroundings doesn't work.
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02/07/2008 14:09:54
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Suzie Q.
Posts 19
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Is that association doing anything to help with this?
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02/07/2008 14:14:53
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Big "T"
Posts 16
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The solution is that people who don't like to live in a busy place shouldn't live in downtown London.
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03/07/2008 15:49:22
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Nita
Posts 12
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It sounds like this woman is out for some money.
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03/07/2008 16:04:06
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Abbey Knox
Posts 22
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How can you have a "quiet" bar scene?
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03/07/2008 16:47:29
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Guest
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Westminster Council is the worst for this. I remember a local bar owner "employing" a bunch of us to go to a meeting when we were residents, just so we could listen to the plans and complaints from some of the officials there. This is the council that governs Soho and Covent Garden, complaining vehemently about noise, people socialising late at night, and too many bars. In Soho.
Needless to say, when it came time to vote, I'm we did exactly what the bar owner in question guessed we'd do.
Unfortunately, it made very little difference in the long run. I went into The Walkabout in Cov Garden some time later, and had a conversation with the manager re: the "no dancing" signs they'd had to put on the wall. Apparently, they'd been threatened by the council because they didn't have a dancing license, so would be fined if the patrons were found to be "moving rythmically" (their term, not mine) whilst music was being played.
I'm sorry, but if you live above the Walkabout in Covent Garden, you deserve all you get. You can't tell me that the outbreak of bars around there is recent.
To this day, bars are struggling to get and extend licenses - 24 hour drinking certainly isn't happening at any pace in Westminster!
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07/07/2008 17:09:56
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Abbey Knox
Posts 22
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"Moving rhythmically"..... not even going to go there....
Are pubs and bars really the loudest things in these areas? What about traffic noise? I mean, there are other contributors to the problem, but I guess the owners of these places are easier to target.
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08/07/2008 16:05:06
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Steve Reynolds
Posts 18
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The Westminster Council has a pretty detailed website for noise problems; they've even got a "Noise Team"!
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14/07/2008 18:56:43
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Leslie Andrews
Posts 37
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What is the community doing to solve this problem, besides complaining? These councils should provide some kind of incentive for solving noise issues. I don't see the council helping either side in this.
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14/07/2008 18:58:01
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Nita
Posts 12
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What about things like noise reducing windows? Depending on their cost, something like those could make a dent in the outside noise.
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15/07/2008 13:48:02
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Jenny Bean
Posts 19
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I wonder if those are more for keeping the noise from outside getting in more than letting the inside noise getting out.
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16/07/2008 15:52:53
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Nick S.
Posts 18
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One more thing for owners to have to pay. With all the assorted fines out there, why are councils always needing more money?
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21/07/2008 16:43:01
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Abbey Knox
Posts 22
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Obviously something needs to be done because the establishments are clearly not responsible enough to handle this themselves; they are not doing it now, why would more fines make them suddenly become more responsible?
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22/07/2008 15:56:30
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Steve Reynolds
Posts 18
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Who was there first? The bars or the residents? If these people are moving into the bar district, they should not complain. If the bars moved into a residential area, then they should be more accommodating.
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23/07/2008 16:30:50
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Big "T"
Posts 16
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In a perfect world the answer would be yes, level a set decibel amount not to go over. How are they going to enforce that though? Do these neighbors know how loud ten decibels are? Is this enforceable?
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23/07/2008 16:35:28
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Grace W. Wexler
Posts 18
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A responsible establishment will take into consideration the neighboring establishments, regardless if they are competitive pubs or residents. It is our responsibility to set an example.
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25/07/2008 00:22:37
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Guest
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does anyone think the neighbors are overreacting?
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26/07/2008 16:11:56
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Guest
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probably. they live in a downtown district-what do they expect?
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